Tektonics.org on the run!
Part 2.
[Intro][part 1]
[part 2] [part 3]
In James Patrick Holding's second response, he has avoided my challenge,and we
are in HOT persuit of the assailant. My challenge stated:
JPH concocted some "graded absolutes" standard of modesty,
which he claimed then why doesn’t he use his own standard to answer the
questions above?? What is this man afraid of??? Dear God, this matter is SO
simple! Tell us which outfits are condemned by Jesus and which clothing are
approved by Jesus!!!
Just have a look at JPH’s intellectual dishonesty. He claimed that
he had a standard of morality, he made reference to arranged marriages,
pagan/Hebrew dress code, and "graded absolutes" to find out Jesus
Christ’s modesty standard. But then he turns around and says NONE of this has
to be applied today!!!! But what I am dying to know, is…… how the HELL do you
apply graded "graded absolutes" as to how low your skirt has to be
according to Jesus?? Or how much cleavage you can show according to Jesus???
JPH’s foolishness is outrageous J . Or may be I’m being foolish? Go ahead, JPH,
lets see how this standard of morality works for these 2 issues. I challenge
you.
JPH has our avoided our request to apply those standards for our current
times!!! He has systematically RAN FOR THE DOOR at our request to use those
standard for any practical applications whatsoever for today!!! Just feast your
eyes on this!:
Rather, JPH flooded us with billions of pages of theoretical GARBAGE,
WHICH HAS NO MEANING, AND NO PRACTICAL APPLICATION!! NO USE TO ANY HUMAN
BEING!! He thinks that if he keeps writing, he can give the ILLUSION that he is
refuting my article. And here I am chasing after him like some kind of fool as
he runs around in circles, and I am cleaning up after his mess by writing page
after page correcting his ignorant remarks and misrepresentations. Well, I’m
not going to do it anymore!
My Christian friends and readers, please keep in mind that I already
foretold you that JPH would run from my challenge in my first rebuttal, I clearly stated, "I
don’t believe for a second, that JPH will meet anyone of these challenges ".
And now, you must atleast admit that I am right. You should know the
methodology of the false teachers when they are confronted with Truth:
"If you can not win them, then
try to confuse them.."
It doesn’t mean that they do it for malicious purposes all the time, it
could be that they are confused themselves. Anyhow, JPH actions are doing
nothing but blurring your vision. He is filling your head with meaningless
crap, because he can not refute the TRUTH. Therefore, let me issue this
statement:
James P. Holding, unless YOU start addressing these core questions posted
above, this debate is over.
Now here is the response to the rest of JPH’s mumbo jumbo:
JPH wrote:
no one doubts that Islam "addresses" such things; so likewise
does Judaism, the Hale-Bopp cult, and Hare Krishna. Addressing problems is
easy. Solving problems is quite another matter.
Response:
You are mistaken. Again. Here we see another act of jealousy, in which
JPH tries to trivialize the success of Islam as being "no big deal".
But the truth is, Islam is the ONLY religion in the world which clearly
addresses and solves these moral problems which I stated in the Britney Spears
article, here are the issues again:
NO RELIGION IN THE WORD CAN ADDRESS AND SOLVE ALL OF THESE MORAL ISSUES
EXCEPT ISLAM. That is ExamineTheTruth.com’s open challenge. The
answers to these moral problems are given in my debate references.
JPH wrote:
I was "forced to go looking OUTSIDE of the Bible for answers."
I wonder whether someone has lately infected him with King James Only Disease.
Surely Mr. Ahmed would not say that he was "forced" to go outside the
Quran to know the definitions of the Arabic words used therein
Response:
JPH has committed the logical fallacy of False Analogy. I will later show
how referring to pagan customs is wrong.
JPH wrote:
Does Mr. Ahmed need to get his story straight with Osama bin Laden, with
the Sufis, with the Shi'a, with every Islamic variation, before he can run his
mouth?
Response:
Yes. For example, when I speak of terrorism, I make sure I separate
myself form Bin Laden.
JPH wrote:
this is not the way things are done, what keeps us from ripping a verse
out of context from the Quran, and declaring that when Muhammed spoke about
modesty, he was really saying…..
Response:
I have already addressed this. Please pay attention. Muslims do NOT go to
pagan Arab culture to interpret the Quran’s code of modesty nor anything else.
Rather, we interpret it according to what God has revealed to Prophet
Muhammed(P) and ONLY that. Pagan cultural norms are irrelevant to us. James
Patrick Holding on the other hand has some bizarre, unintelligible encrypted
morality code (some weird combination of pagan culture, societal norms, mixed
in with "graded absolutes") which still needs to be decrypted, and
that is when the real truth will be unveiled ….once he addresses my key
questions listed above.
JPH wrote:
It is therefore utterly false that "only Paul, can tell us what HE meant
by modest."
Response:
This is your wishful thinking. This canard of JPH can be shot down from
multiple angles. JPH’s argument is the society which Paul lived in was a
collective society, therefore, it is impossible for Paul to have a different
sense of modesty than what his culture dictates, thus Paul possessed NO
individuality and no inspiration. This of course, is absolute absurdity. What I
find very interesting, is that subconsciously, JPH forgets that according to
Christian indoctrination, the real author of the Bible is God. Paul was just a
conveyor of God’s message! And God standard of modesty does not have to conform
to pagan society! This no doubt was a terrible Freudian slip on the part of JPH.
Therefore, I will continue to address Paul as a man who is NOT inspired
by God, but one who simply claimed to be a Prophet (apostle) and a product of
his environment. However, Paul did teach certain aspects of morality which did
go against collectivist culture in 1 Cor 11. Based on this, JPH’s theory crumbles
in thin air. Paul also condemned women from wearing jewelry and braided hair.
In my last response, I also raised the issue that Paul may have had a
particular code of modesty, but simply did not write it down in his letters,
therefore, that code is lost. Paul’s himself confirms that 1 Cor 11:34.
I actually didn’t know that the pagans and Hebrews had the same exact
code of modesty as God, but this is what JPH foolishly believes without a shred
of evidence.
And finally I actually don’t have a problem of accepting your JPH’s
assertion,. Because that still doesn’t solve any problems.. But what I do have
a problem with, is that JPH is the only Christian in the world that has this
bizarre morality code.
JPH wrote:
and made admonitions in the Quran, if anything, a sign of a more
degnerate society in need of the reminder.
Response:
Yes, the Arabs were not as "cultured" and "refined"
as the splendid pagans of
JPH wrote:
St. James can be no means by held responsible for the perversions of
those who are "turned on" because her hair is curled just so…
Response:
Why did you exclude Britney Spears????????????? Not only are you
prejudice against Arabs, but you also discriminate against anyone who is not in
your cliché!!! I don’t give a damn what turns JPH on or off. You and
your buddy St. James have NO RIGHT to dictate to others what they should or
should not find sexually appealing. If I man (or woman) wants to find a
person’s nasty toes to be appealing, you have no right to pass judgment on
them. That is arrogance, par excellence. Only God has that right.
Therefore, my challenge is show me from the BIBLE where are the limits
drawn. Show me from the teachings of Christ what is too much and what is
too little. You can not, because the Bible fails to address these social
issues, but Islam clearly does. Therefore, if someone were to ask me what is
too much or what is acceptable, I will never give him my own personal opinion
based upon my own whims. Never. Rather, I wills say, "here let me show
you what God says about these matters…. Lets clear the table and bring out
God’s scriptures….lets turn to chapter 4 verse……. etc"
JPH wrote:
Marriages in the Greco-Roman world were arranged; there was no dating
(the main point of Mr. Ahmed's screed) and women were kept tightly controlled
in their homes
Response:
You completely misunderstood my point. Even then arranged marriages
existed, which you need to show proof for, love marriages have always existed
side by side. There is no way in the world any society can avoid it! Here is an
example of a love marriage in your Bible.
JPH wrote:
As noted, we agree that Islam "solves" these problems -- so
indeed would a knife in the heart solve the problems of a cancer patient
Response:
The only "knife in the heart" are your pathetic arguments thus
far, which have embarrassed Christians all over the Internet! lol J
Here we can see that James Patrick Holding has resorted to spreading
myths against Islam. Folks, he is trying to appeal to your ignorance and
prejudices, and this is truly the position of the weak. There simply is no
basis nor any justification for that fictitious analogy.
Therefore I challenge JPH to show how Islam’s solution is like a knife in
the heart. But I guarantee you, JPH will not be able to produce a shred of
evidence to support his malicious analogy.
But, what else can a Christian say? I mean, Islam has done what his
religion could not do, logically rendering Christianity as false. That is the
REAL knife in the heart to these Christian apologists, Therefore, the ONLY
defense is to falsely portray Islam as some kind of killing terror.
Infact, let me extend this invitation. Find a Muslim, make him your
friend. spend time with him/her and his family. And you see for yourself how
Muslim live and how Islam works in their daily life and judge for yourself.
JPH wrote:
Mr. Ahmed agrees with my point that the Bible (and the Quran, he allows)
say nothing about drugs for there were no drugs to use and abuse;
Response:
No I did not. Go back and read what I wrote again. I specifically stated
that Islam clearly prohibits drug use, which the Bible does not do. And I
raised the question, "How can a false religion, condemn one of the most
evil and luring poisons of Satan, his pride and joy, all the while God's
supposedly-true religion, Christianity, allows it"?? This question has
gone unanswered.
JPH wrote:
Jews and Christians who use some common sense, to decide that the Bible's
strictures on pharamkos (Galatians 5:20)
Response:
This is not common sense, this is DECEPTION. This is fraud. As I have
pointed out in the Ahmed-Slick Debate on Morality, this word "pharamkos" is referring sorcery, and
the magic potions of witches!! Not drugs as we understand it today! This feeble
attempt has not only shown how JPH will not hesitate fabricate lies, but it
also shows JPH’s hypocrisy. His whole tirade was that I was taking the Bible
out of his historical settings!!! But, look who is doing it? James Patrick
Holding is doing it… that’s who.
JPH wrote:
To which I can only say, that we thank Mr. Ahmed for admitting to his own
rank stupidity and/or utter lack of self-control.
Response:
You welcome. I love to have fun in da sun, love to party and have a good time,
I am a hedonist by nature, and a thrill seeker with a addiction to adreniline.
And there are hundreds of millions of Muslims, Christians Jews, Hindus,
Wiccan..etc.. who have the very similar outlook on life. But at the same time I
want to be "right with God" as I have accepted Allah as my Lord and
Savior, therefore, I pay very close attention to the moral guidelines of Islam.
I make sure I understand the clear boundaries and try not to exceed them.
JPH wrote:
the Bible does not teach that "you should look at their INTENTIONS
behind their deeds." It hardly needed to; that once again is a standard
moral lesson that has been known in societies from the dawn of time
Response:
This of
course is another baseless assertion, which has NO proof. But let me quickly
silence JPH’s canard by showing how your own Bible teaches against this:
7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter
into the kingdom of heaven(they had the right intention); but he that doeth
the will (deeds have to be correct)of my Father which is in heaven.
7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
prophesied in thy name? (they had the right intentions; they did it for Jesus)
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful
works?
7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart
from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore, as we can see from this passage of the Bible, these people’s
intentions was correct: They did it for Jesus. But the deeds were NOT correct
because they did not DO THE WILL(deeds) of the father in heaven. And then
finally Jesus will condemn them, because they THAT WORK INIQUITY(deeds). Thus
Jesus had no concern for their INTENTIONS. It meant nothing to Christ. This
sharply contradicts what Islam teaches in this regard. That is why Christians
have coined the phrase, "Road to hell is paved with good intentions".
Please also keep in mind, that Christians also believe that INTENTIONS
are irrelevant when it comes to committing sin. They don’t care if man was born
weak and sinful, because, a price has to be paid for sin. Jesus’s Blood!!!
Sorry won’t help you." I didn’t mean it " won’t help you. " I am
weak" wont help you. BLOOD of Jesus is the only way. Islam contradicts all
these false teachings:
Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions and every person will get the reward according to what he has intended. So whoever emigrated for worldly benefits or for a woman to marry, his emigration was for what he emigrated for."
Therefore, we see that James Patrick Holding rejects the Bible’s teaching
and follows the true guidance of Islam. Please also keep in mind, that there
are several examples of where Christians appeal to Islam and the teachings of
Prophet Muhammed(P) to resolve their issues. Inshallah, those examples will be
forth coming.
And finally, I would like to bring up a terrible male shovanistic pig
hypocrisy of certain Christian men. They have the audacity to condemn
certain woman for what they wear or certain behavior they engage in, falsely
claiming that is it "unchrist like", and they discriminate and
backbite. "O, look at her…"…"O dear, what is that THING that she is wearing….." against
these women in their Churches, so much to the point, where these woman are no
longer wanted in their cliché, because, well.. "they’re just not a
good fit" and "it’s just not the image we want to project". And
when these woman turn around and demand from these Christian clerics:
"SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE I
AM CONDEMNED BY CHRIST FOR WHAT I DO!!!"
These lying "men of the cloth" can not produce a single verse
from the Holy Bible. Thus these women retort, "then how dare you condemn
me, when Christ himself DOES NOT condemn me!?!?!!" … the only response
these male shovanistic pigs give, is "use your common sense…"
as they shut the door in her face.
BUT! Have a look at this: Christian conservative men, load up their SUVs
and drive out from the suburbs and big city to go HUNTING at resorts all across
the country, in which the merclessly kill inncocent deer, pheasants, bear, and
other "game" for the "sport" of it, not to feed their families.
Why don’t they use this same "common sense" and condemn those
sadistic Christians?????
Here is the point to be noted, the response from these Christian men will
be the very same argument which those poor women demanded:
"SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE I
AM CONDEMNED BY CHRIST FOR WHAT I DO!!!"
Let met warn you ahead of time, many of these Christian men KNOW their
Bible from cover to cover. I have worked in the hotel industry, and I know my
clientele very well. The matter is indeed clear, there is NO WHERE in the Bible
which condemns sport hunting!!! Therefore sport hunting does not go against the
teachings of Christ, nor against the Bible! Therefore, it is ok to engage in.
Btw, sport hunting is FORBIDDEN in Islam.
So here is the take home point. The male shovanistic pig hypocrisy,
is that there are women who dress a certain way, or engage in certain behavior
as I documented in the Britney Spears vs. Rebecca article, and those
behaviors are not in conflict with any of Jesus Christ’s teachings, nor any
Biblical verse. But, they are STILL CONDEMNED by their Christian peers, and
they are told to use their "common sense"! Yet, when Christian men go
out sport hunting, in which they brutally massacre animals for the fun of it,
and it too is also not in conflict with any of Jesus Christ’s teachings, nor
any Biblical verse, they are treated DIFFERENTLY, they are NOT condemned, and
they are NOT told to use their "common sense", and therefore, sport
hunting is not condemned as a sin against Christ! That is a double standard,
which I and my fellow goth American friends will not stand for. Got it? (I’m
not goth btw J )
So now, you can see the fallacy of this canard of claiming certain
actions or behaviors are condemned by Jesus Christ or God, and your only
evidence is "common sense". This "common sense" is nothing
more than subjective opinions based upon peoples prejudices. Let me give you
another example, it goes against "common sense" to pot weelies on a motorcycle as it can be
dangerous, and may lead to costly repairs. But I love to do commit these acts
because it gives me thrill, and is very fun. In addition to that, there is
nothing in the Quran or Bible, which condemns this behavior. Therefore, it is
ok to do and is not a sin against God. God allows Muslims and Christians to pot
weelies. and Even tough it goes against COMMON SENSE!!
Therefore, it is COMMON SENSE now to apply the same logic to the following:
Therefore, let me encapsulate the type of culture the Bible
promotes: Men and woman walking around in tight fitted, skimpy outfits exposing
much of their parts, each one engaged in flirting and indiscretely seducing
each other (there is no condemnation in the Bible for any of this), and not
only that, but engaging in several if not all sexual acts except for sexual
intercourse, engaging in "mashing", and all the free cocaine, heroin
and marijuana that they desire. A good example of living within the confines of
Biblical morality would be the "Girls Gone Wild" commercials on TV,
or MTV's spring break parties. No wonder we have a screwed up society. (it was
proved in the debate, that the Bible does NOT condemn drug use, please see my references
for more information) .
So, start producing
your Bible verses.
