The Shamounian Dance
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*WARNING* |
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An ExamineTheTruth.com disclaimer. |
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Shameless Shamoun has responded to our article titled, Jesus Obeyed Satan here:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/NA/satan.htm
hehehe…. J now, it is time to put the finishing touches on
Shameless Shamoun. Anyone who read that response can clearly see that he systematically
refused to address my arguments. Rather, he started to harp on the
"neato" parts of the Bible which are completely irrelevant to the
article, and just danced around the clear arguments posed, all the while
hurling irrelevant issues related to Islam at us! Lets have a look:
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
Not that this
bothers me, since the recording of my response will now actually backfire
against Nadir, and will show that he is willing to lie and use deceit in order
to promote the cause of Allah.
This is yet another lie. You will not find any deceit. But
rather, this is what Shameless Shamoun is accused of everyday of his life.
Therefore, this is nothing but a projection of himself.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
The truly sad thing
about this is that Nadir is only perfectly exemplifying the spirit of his
religion, since Allah permits his followers to lie and cheat in his cause:
Response:
Yawn, of course, this garbage has already been refuted. As I
mentioned, I am done with these written letter writing excersise that these God
forsaken cowards like Shamoun hide under, if he thinks these are really solid
arguments, then let him come forward and debate me on it! But no, these cowards
only want to write letters back and forth. Since this is way off topic, I will
address it a later time, face to face.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
Nadir misquoted my
words and deliberately distorted them, which means that he got excited over
nothing
Yet again, another shameless lie, from Shameless Shamoun. Ok,
now keep in mind, Shameless Shamoun has accused me of:
- lie and deceit
- misquoting words and
distorting them
but we will see that NONE of this has ever taken place. I
challenge the readers of this response, to comb though my Jesus Obeyed Satan
article and see if I did any of this. This is just another example of Shameless
Shamoun’s pathological lying.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
But first I want to
mention the fact that, in my response, I basically repeated what I had already
written regarding this subject about ten weeks earlier (cf. Part 2 of the series on Muhammad's
Bewitchment). In fact, Nadir was explicitly informed of my written response here.
Seeing that he
essentially chose to ignore it, I will basically repeat it here for all to
read:
Response:
Because it is completely irrelevant. I agree that Jesus did pass
some of the temptation’s of Satan, BUT, there were a few which Jesus failed to!
And that is what my article is about. Shameless Shamoun thinks we will forget
about Jesus’s failures if he highlights his achievements. Here we see the
"Shamounian Dance" as he dances around the
clear argument.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
Thus, Jesus, by
quoting Deuteronomy 8:3, was showing that he came to do what
Response:
Yawn, who cares.. zzzzzzz
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
I had also stated
that Jesus was greater than Muhammad since Muhammad failed to overcome Satan
Response:
Isn’t this argument kinda childish? First off, Jesus took direct
orders from Satan. YES SIR SATAN! Therefore, this is not true. And what is this
"overcome Satan" monkey business? Why does he not say state the
truth, a Jew worked magic on the Prophet Muhammed(P), which served as a test
from Allah, then Allah healed him. Here we see that Shameless Shamoun is using
sensationalism and building caricatures. Well, as I stated, they don’t have a valid argument against Islam, so what else
can he do? That is why Shameless Shamoun refuses to face me in a
public debate. I pitty him.
Now for the sake of the reader, I think it is important to point
out that all the arguments which Shameless Shamoun raised about Prophet
Muhammed(P) proves NOTHING. There is no logical argument. No appeal to reason.
If you like you can skip over it. Hypothetically a Prophet of God can be
affected by magic from a Jew, and still be the true Prophet. Very much so.
There is nothing in the world, which would disprove that. Its simply a matter
up to God, and it is who God chooses what is acceptable and what is isn’t, NOT
Shameless Shamoun or his corrupt Bible.
So, this next portion, Shameless Shamoun wants to try to make
Muslims feel "embarrassed", by showing that the values and norms are
not "American" and are foreign to a person living in the
"civilized" western hemisphere. But of course, in Africa,
But Shameless Shamoun wants us to understand the "wholesome
values" of the Bible, so lets give him a chance, Ok? Here they are:
God’s
"wholesome values" dictates that being affected by magic is very
dirty, shameful, and embarrassing for a Prophet. God’s true Prophet can not be
succombed by such things. No sir. But God’s "wholesome values" allow true Prophets to have sex with their daughters.
So, there you have it folks the "wholesome values" of
the Bible. Geez, you know, we Muslims are soo lost J .
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
Thirdly, Allah’s
help came a little too late. Unlike the God of the Bible, Allah wasn’t able to
prevent Muhammad from falling under a Jew’s enchantment which caused Muhammad
to hallucinate some very embarrassing things:
Response:
Poor poor Shamoun. He has no logical argument. No appeal to
reason. What else can he do but fabricate stories? Keep in mind Shameless
Shamoun stated:
Allah’s help came a little too late. Unlike the God of the Bible, Allah wasn’t able to prevent Muhammad from falling under a Jew’s enchantment
If Shameless Shamoun’s analysis is correct, that that means the
hadeeth states, the following happened:
God knew the Jew’s intention, And God desperately tried to keep
Prophet Muhammed(P) from being affected by any magic, but when God finally got
a chance to offer Prophet Muhammed(P) protection, it was too late.
This is complete fabrication! There is no where such an incident
is ever mentioned! This is just a another example of how Shameless Shamoun
deliberatly twisted the truth for created his false Shamounian interpretation.
Thus when he accuses others of "distorting", this is nothing but a
projection of himself.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
which caused Muhammad to hallucinate some very embarrassing things:
Narrated Aisha:
Magic was worked on Allah's Apostle SO THAT HE USED TO THINK THAT HE HAD
SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH HIS WIVES WHILE HE ACTUALLY HAD NOT.
Response:
Again here Shameless Shamoun is trying to shove his
"wholesome Christian values" down our throats. But, we also see here
how Shameless Shamoun feels about sex:
DIRTY!!!!!!!!!!!!
FILTHY!!! SINNER!!!
But, from our point of view, sex is inherently good, and we will
get rewarded in heaven for having sex. Islam is a "pro-sex" religion.
Therefore, this is a ethnocentric argument. Shameless Shamoun is
trying to fault us because we don’t follow his "wholesome Christian
Values"!J But we at ExamineTheTruth.com are dang proud of it!
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
Thus, I set out to
prove that Jesus didn’t obey Satan, but soundly defeated him, whereas Satan
defeated Muhammad.
Response:
The only thing you proved is you are cowardly running away from
the issue! As for Satan "defeating" Prophet Muhammed(P).. then this
is another shameless lie. The hadeeth clearly goes on to state that Allah cured
Prophet Muhammed(P) and their attempt was twarted. This was a great test for
the beloved Prophet of Islam. But here we see that Shameless Shamoun is trying
to create a caricature again, why does he just not say, magic affected the
Prophet (PBUH)? Why? Why?? Why ??? J the reason is because Answering Islam,
Shameless Shamoun is BANKRUPT. They don’t have a single valid argument against
Islam. That is why they can not come forward and participate in the Islam
debate. They can not debate specific issues with anyone. Rather, they jus sit
on the sidelines and watch. The best they can hope for is find some ignorant
soul, who they can surprise them with their false arguments.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
Quite clearly,
Jesus didn’t obey Satan at all, but refused to give in to all three of his
requests. How can one then conclude from this that Jesus obeyed Satan, or that
I would even concede to such an idea, is simply beyond me.
Response:
Hehehe…. Rather than coming forward and admiting the truth,
Shameless Shamoun has decided to go down fighting. Ok, as he wishes. Shameless
Shamoun has refused to address my argument! He is trying to create a smoke
screen of irrelvant information hoping that the reader will forget or over look
the real issue. And that is, there are more than 3 requests! When Satan came to
Jesus in the desert, he took him with him to go mountain climbing and "to
paint the town red". So, the question begs, did Jesus go:
- Unwillingly. Like a
hostage of Satan, roped up and gagged.
- Willingly. Satan came
to Jesus and told him to follow him to go traveling, and Jesus said, yes,
I will follow you.
Since Shameless Shamoun is a man worshipper, and believes Jesus
is God, and has all power over Satan, he will be forced to admit option 2:
Jesus went WILLINGLY. Again, it is irrelevant if Jesus passed MOST of Satan’s
temptations as Shameless Shamoun is pointing out. I agree that Jesus did pass
MOST of the temptations. But, there were a few temptations, which Jesus did NOT
pass, and Shameless Shamoun is dancing around those temptations.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
How can one then
conclude from this that Jesus obeyed Satan, or that I would even concede to
such an idea, is simply beyond me.
Response:
Shameless Shamoun is playing dumb. Don’t buy it. He knows very
well the argument, but because he can not refute the sound logic he is playing
dumb.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
Yet, by submitting
to God and resisting his attacks, no matter what form these attacks may take,
the devil will then flee. And what did Jesus do! You got it, HE SUCCESSFULLY
RESISTED SATAN BY PERFECTLY SUBMITTING TO HIS FATHER’S WILL, NOT GIVING IN FOR
A MOMENT TO ANY OF THE ADVERSARY’S OBSTACLES, CAUSING SATAN TO FLEE. Note again
the conclusion of Jesus’ showdown with Satan
Response:
Poor poor Shameless Shamoun. He thinks his smoke screen is
actually working. He thinks that we have some how forgot Satan taking Jesus
with him WILLINGLY to go mountain climbing. It is clear, that he is refusing to
address this argument. Rather, he wants to highlight Jesus’s achievements.
Now folks, I appeal to the readers. Whether you are a Chrisitan
Muslim or neither, I think we can all agree that Shameless Shamoun is engaged
in selfdeception, Remember in our debate on, "What the Quran says about
the Bible?" (you can download it from my website), I clearly alluded to
this point, and I showed you how certain Evangelical Christians engage in
selfdeception when confronted with the cold facts, which are unambiguous and
conclusive. And here we see yet another text book case, of selfdeception.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
Yet, by submitting
to God and resisting his attacks, no matter what form these attacks may take,
the devil will then flee. And what did Jesus do! You got it, HE SUCCESSFULLY
RESISTED SATAN BY PERFECTLY SUBMITTING TO HIS FATHER’S WILL, NOT GIVING IN FOR
A MOMENT TO ANY OF THE ADVERSARY’S OBSTACLES, CAUSING SATAN TO FLEE. Note again
the conclusion of Jesus’ showdown with Satan:
"Jesus said to him, ‘AWAY FROM ME, Satan!
For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him
only."’ THEN THE DEVIL LEFT HIM, and angels came and attended
him." Matthew 4:10-11
In other words, Jesus
perfectly lived out and demonstrated that James was correct in his claim that
Satan will flee from those who submit to God! Thus, Nadir’s appeal to James
backfires against him, exposing his inability to read texts carefully in order
to understand what the passage is actually saying. Nadir’s appeal to 1
Corinthians 10:20, which speaks of offering sacrifices to demons, as if this is
somehow relevant to Jesus’ situation with Satan, only provides further proof
for our accusation that he cannot think logically or present a reasoned
response.
Response:
Again, Shameless Shamoun refuses to address my argument. My argument that I
stated in my article, which he is running from, is that when Satan approached
Jesus in the desert, and tempted Jesus to leave the desert and go with him
mountain climbing, Jesus should have resisted him! Jesus should have said,
"NO. Go to hell Satan!". I will not be a part of your evil designs!
But Jesus did no such thing. Rather, Jesus fell prey to Satan’s temptation and
obeyed him and followed Satan where ever Satan wanted him to go. Obeying and
following Satan is a sin. This is a contradiction in the Bible, because the
Bible says, Jesus is sinless. Shameless Shamoun thought that he could highlight
a few instances of where Jesus did resist Satan, we will all forget about the
occassion when Jesus obeyed Satan and did not resist him. But it is true, that
overall Jesus did resist most of the temptations of Satan, but there were some,
which Jesus could not resist.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
Pay close attention
to what Nadir cited since I never did say that Jesus obeyed Satan, but said
that he accepted Satan’s invitation to go to the mountain and to the pinnacle
of the Temple FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF DEFEATING AND HUMILIATING THE ENEMY. As
anyone reading the Gospel accounts can see, Jesus refused to obey Satan.
Response:
Hehehehe.. Shameless Shamoun thinks we are all stupid here. But
this is another example of selfdeception. When Satan came to Jesus and tempted
him to follow him to go mountain climbing and take direct orders from him (
when Satan commanded Jesus to sit on the top of the temple), Jesus is obeying
Satan. Therefore, Shameless Shamoun did admit that Jesus obeyed Satan.
As for Shamounian interpretation, Jesus had to obey Satan in order to
"defeat" him, I already refuted this nonsense in my aritcle. Jesus
could have "defeated" and humiliated him in the desert very easily.
Furthermore, obeying Satan and taking direct orders from Satan, is not a prerequisite
in order to defeat him. Shameless Shamoun was not able to respond to my
refutation, so he simply restated his original argument, all the while ignoring
the fact that I already refuted it.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
Now why is this
important? It is important because Nadir conveniently omitted what I said right
afterwards. I said that if the Muslim insists that Jesus "obeyed"
Satan for accepting his invitation, thus making him a sinner, then he must also
accept the fact that Allah is the biggest sinner out there, and here is why.
According to this erroneous logic, Allah also obeyed Satan for giving in to his
requests, a point I even raised in my response to Johnny Bravo:
Response:
Shameless Shamoun has posed a riddle, which is based on his misreading of text
of the Quran. Allah never obeyed Satan and we will refute his riddle in just a
moment. But lets go along with the riddle for argument sake. If Allah obeyed
Satan, ok fine.… but who cares? I mean, does that disprove Islam? No. Actually
it proves nothing! This is a completely irrelevant argument and shows that
Shamoun is incapable of formulating a single valid argument against Islam!
But this also shows that Shameless Shamoun has difficulty
comprehending. He has problems grasping details, because he does not understand
my argument. I am not saying that Christianity is false because the story of
Jesus obeying Satan is an outrageously rediculous story. That is not my
argument. Hey, who am I to judge God or his messenger? Right? I am not shoving
my own personal values and morality down anyone’s throat, unlike Shameless
Shamoun.
But rather, my argument is that Jesus obeyed Satan, which is a
horrible sin. And that is a flat out contradiction because the Bible teaches
that Jesus is not sinless! Therefore, no book of God can contain such a
devastating contradiction.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
Bravo’s
assertion that the Quran leaves God out of it only serves to prove that the
Quran is an incoherent record, and makes little sense if one didn’t have
recourse to the previous Scriptures to understand it.
Response:
This is a flat out lie. If I ever get my hands on this Shameless
liar in a public debate, I will make him eat these words J .
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
But since Bravo
takes exception to God being incited by Satan to allow the latter to test Job,
we duly return the favor
Response:
Sure! Go ahead fatboy! As I already stated, being incited by
Satan does not pose any logical contradiction for Islam, but it is devastating
to Christianity.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
Iblis asks Allah
for respite with the intention of plunging man into destruction, and Allah
grants him his request!
Response:
Shameless Shamoun has misread the text. This again, shows that
he has difficutly comprehending and paying attention to detail. The verse
actually states:
(Allâh) said: "(O Iblîs) get down from this (
(Iblîs) said: "Allow me respite till the Day
they are raised up (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)." (Al-A'raf 7:14)
(Allâh) said: "You are of those allowed
respite." (Al-A'raf 7:15)
Allah answered Satan that "you are of those allowed(past
tense) respite" meaning God has already determined his fate BEFORE Satan
initiated the question. Satan has NO input or say so regarding if he is allowed
respite or not. Therefore, Satan is agreeing with God’s pre-decreed will, which
he did not know about till Allah informed him in verse 15.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
For the record, let
me repeat the point in all capitals.
I DO NOT CLAIM THAT JESUS OBEYED SATAN.
Response:
YES YOU DID.
WHEN YOU SAID JESUS ACCEPTED SATAN’S INVITATION
YOU IMMEDIATELY CONCEDED THAT JEUS OBEYED SATAN.
Shameless Shamoun wrote:
And now, in light of the preceding, here is our open challenge to Nadir:
Since you have an audio file of my
response to the question posed to me on Paltalk, we invite you to post the
entirety of my answer on your website.
Response:
Sorry, don’t have the tape anymore. I pitched it long time ago.
But if you are really concerned, then why did you run from me in a public
debate?:
http://www.examinethetruth.com/RefutingAI/Shameless_Shamoun_RUNS.htm
You are a coward. Face me in a public debate and I will settle
this matter for you. Deal? Now lets revisit Shameless Shamoun’s allegations
against me:
- lie and deceit
- misquoting words and
distorting them
What lie? What distortion? Where? We have now seen that these
are completely false allegations. This is a Shameless Shamoun’s defense
mechanism when he is confronted with the brutal truth, that he immediately
accuses the challenger of lying and distortion, but he never winds up showing
where these lies and distortions are.
In conclusion, it is all down hill from here on. Shameless
Shamoun has successfully evaded each argument presented in the Jesus Obeyed Satan article. He thought he
could fool people by highlighting irrelevant issues surrounding the main
argument, but he failed. Just to recap, we don’t give hoot if Jesus passed most
of Satan’s temptations. Shamoun can jump up in the air and shout SATAN HAS BEEN
OVERCOME AND DEFEATED all he wants over a pretty easy test of just saying no
thank you to Satan, something most believers do everyday. But this is a
diversion from the issue that there were a few temptations which Jesus did not
pass. And by Jesus obeying and following the command of Satan, he committed a
grave and moral sin. As for the rest of his arguments, they are soo silly and
irrelevant to the issue, that I trust no one will be swayed by them, so I will
ignore them.
I knew very well that Shameless Shamoun would not be able to
refute the solid arguments, therefore, I gave him a way out. Let me extend my
invitation again:
We exhort "Answering Islam" to be man enough to
courageously come forward and surrender their website to ExamineTheTruth.com.
The paper signing ceremony will take place at The Peninsula Chicago (or otherwise
specified).
Bogus website Answering-Islam.org DEBUNKED
Lies against Islam