Shameless Shamoun has responded here:

The Shamounian Dance

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Shameless Shamoun has responded to our article titled, Jesus Obeyed Satan here:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/NA/satan.htm

hehehe…. J now, it is time to put the finishing touches on Shameless Shamoun. Anyone who read that response can clearly see that he systematically refused to address my arguments. Rather, he started to harp on the "neato" parts of the Bible which are completely irrelevant to the article, and just danced around the clear arguments posed, all the while hurling irrelevant issues related to Islam at us! Lets have a look:

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

Not that this bothers me, since the recording of my response will now actually backfire against Nadir, and will show that he is willing to lie and use deceit in order to promote the cause of Allah.

This is yet another lie. You will not find any deceit. But rather, this is what Shameless Shamoun is accused of everyday of his life. Therefore, this is nothing but a projection of himself.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

The truly sad thing about this is that Nadir is only perfectly exemplifying the spirit of his religion, since Allah permits his followers to lie and cheat in his cause:

Response:

Yawn, of course, this garbage has already been refuted. As I mentioned, I am done with these written letter writing excersise that these God forsaken cowards like Shamoun hide under, if he thinks these are really solid arguments, then let him come forward and debate me on it! But no, these cowards only want to write letters back and forth. Since this is way off topic, I will address it a later time, face to face.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

Nadir misquoted my words and deliberately distorted them, which means that he got excited over nothing

Yet again, another shameless lie, from Shameless Shamoun. Ok, now keep in mind, Shameless Shamoun has accused me of:

lie and deceit
misquoting words and distorting them

but we will see that NONE of this has ever taken place. I challenge the readers of this response, to comb though my Jesus Obeyed Satan article and see if I did any of this. This is just another example of Shameless Shamoun’s pathological lying.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

But first I want to mention the fact that, in my response, I basically repeated what I had already written regarding this subject about ten weeks earlier (cf. Part 2 of the series on Muhammad's Bewitchment). In fact, Nadir was explicitly informed of my written response here.

Seeing that he essentially chose to ignore it, I will basically repeat it here for all to read:

Response:

Because it is completely irrelevant. I agree that Jesus did pass some of the temptation’s of Satan, BUT, there were a few which Jesus failed to! And that is what my article is about. Shameless Shamoun thinks we will forget about Jesus’s failures if he highlights his achievements. Here we see the "Shamounian Dance" as he dances around the clear argument.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

Thus, Jesus, by quoting Deuteronomy 8:3, was showing that he came to do what Israel couldn’t do. He came to overcome the Adversary and prevail over his trials by completely trusting in the providence of his Father.

Response:

Yawn, who cares.. zzzzzzz

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

I had also stated that Jesus was greater than Muhammad since Muhammad failed to overcome Satan

Response:

Isn’t this argument kinda childish? First off, Jesus took direct orders from Satan. YES SIR SATAN! Therefore, this is not true. And what is this "overcome Satan" monkey business? Why does he not say state the truth, a Jew worked magic on the Prophet Muhammed(P), which served as a test from Allah, then Allah healed him. Here we see that Shameless Shamoun is using sensationalism and building caricatures. Well, as I stated, they don’t have a valid argument against Islam, so what else can he do? That is why Shameless Shamoun refuses to face me in a public debate. I pitty him.

Now for the sake of the reader, I think it is important to point out that all the arguments which Shameless Shamoun raised about Prophet Muhammed(P) proves NOTHING. There is no logical argument. No appeal to reason. If you like you can skip over it. Hypothetically a Prophet of God can be affected by magic from a Jew, and still be the true Prophet. Very much so. There is nothing in the world, which would disprove that. Its simply a matter up to God, and it is who God chooses what is acceptable and what is isn’t, NOT Shameless Shamoun or his corrupt Bible.

So, this next portion, Shameless Shamoun wants to try to make Muslims feel "embarrassed", by showing that the values and norms are not "American" and are foreign to a person living in the "civilized" western hemisphere. But of course, in Africa, China, New Guinea ..etc no one would give a damn to Shameless Shamoun’s values. Therefore, it is a 100% appeal to emotions.

But Shameless Shamoun wants us to understand the "wholesome values" of the Bible, so lets give him a chance, Ok? Here they are:

God’s "wholesome values" dictates that being affected by magic is very dirty, shameful, and embarrassing for a Prophet. God’s true Prophet can not be succombed by such things. No sir. But God’s "wholesome values" allow true Prophets to have sex with their daughters.

So, there you have it folks the "wholesome values" of the Bible. Geez, you know, we Muslims are soo lost J .

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

Thirdly, Allah’s help came a little too late. Unlike the God of the Bible, Allah wasn’t able to prevent Muhammad from falling under a Jew’s enchantment which caused Muhammad to hallucinate some very embarrassing things:

Response:

Poor poor Shamoun. He has no logical argument. No appeal to reason. What else can he do but fabricate stories? Keep in mind Shameless Shamoun stated:

Allah’s help came a little too late. Unlike the God of the Bible, Allah wasn’t able to prevent Muhammad from falling under a Jew’s enchantment

If Shameless Shamoun’s analysis is correct, that that means the hadeeth states, the following happened:

God knew the Jew’s intention, And God desperately tried to keep Prophet Muhammed(P) from being affected by any magic, but when God finally got a chance to offer Prophet Muhammed(P) protection, it was too late.

This is complete fabrication! There is no where such an incident is ever mentioned! This is just a another example of how Shameless Shamoun deliberatly twisted the truth for created his false Shamounian interpretation. Thus when he accuses others of "distorting", this is nothing but a projection of himself.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

which caused Muhammad to hallucinate some very embarrassing things:

Narrated Aisha:
Magic was worked on Allah's Apostle SO THAT HE USED TO THINK THAT HE HAD SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH HIS WIVES WHILE HE ACTUALLY HAD NOT.

Response:

Again here Shameless Shamoun is trying to shove his "wholesome Christian values" down our throats. But, we also see here how Shameless Shamoun feels about sex:

DIRTY!!!!!!!!!!!! FILTHY!!! SINNER!!!

But, from our point of view, sex is inherently good, and we will get rewarded in heaven for having sex. Islam is a "pro-sex" religion. Therefore, this is a ethnocentric argument. Shameless Shamoun is trying to fault us because we don’t follow his "wholesome Christian Values"!J But we at ExamineTheTruth.com are dang proud of it!

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

Thus, I set out to prove that Jesus didn’t obey Satan, but soundly defeated him, whereas Satan defeated Muhammad.

Response:

The only thing you proved is you are cowardly running away from the issue! As for Satan "defeating" Prophet Muhammed(P).. then this is another shameless lie. The hadeeth clearly goes on to state that Allah cured Prophet Muhammed(P) and their attempt was twarted. This was a great test for the beloved Prophet of Islam. But here we see that Shameless Shamoun is trying to create a caricature again, why does he just not say, magic affected the Prophet (PBUH)? Why? Why?? Why ??? J the reason is because Answering Islam, Shameless Shamoun is BANKRUPT. They don’t have a single valid argument against Islam. That is why they can not come forward and participate in the Islam debate. They can not debate specific issues with anyone. Rather, they jus sit on the sidelines and watch. The best they can hope for is find some ignorant soul, who they can surprise them with their false arguments.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

Quite clearly, Jesus didn’t obey Satan at all, but refused to give in to all three of his requests. How can one then conclude from this that Jesus obeyed Satan, or that I would even concede to such an idea, is simply beyond me.

Response:

Hehehe…. Rather than coming forward and admiting the truth, Shameless Shamoun has decided to go down fighting. Ok, as he wishes. Shameless Shamoun has refused to address my argument! He is trying to create a smoke screen of irrelvant information hoping that the reader will forget or over look the real issue. And that is, there are more than 3 requests! When Satan came to Jesus in the desert, he took him with him to go mountain climbing and "to paint the town red". So, the question begs, did Jesus go:

Unwillingly. Like a hostage of Satan, roped up and gagged.
Willingly. Satan came to Jesus and told him to follow him to go traveling, and Jesus said, yes, I will follow you.

Since Shameless Shamoun is a man worshipper, and believes Jesus is God, and has all power over Satan, he will be forced to admit option 2: Jesus went WILLINGLY. Again, it is irrelevant if Jesus passed MOST of Satan’s temptations as Shameless Shamoun is pointing out. I agree that Jesus did pass MOST of the temptations. But, there were a few temptations, which Jesus did NOT pass, and Shameless Shamoun is dancing around those temptations.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

How can one then conclude from this that Jesus obeyed Satan, or that I would even concede to such an idea, is simply beyond me.

Response:

Shameless Shamoun is playing dumb. Don’t buy it. He knows very well the argument, but because he can not refute the sound logic he is playing dumb.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

Yet, by submitting to God and resisting his attacks, no matter what form these attacks may take, the devil will then flee. And what did Jesus do! You got it, HE SUCCESSFULLY RESISTED SATAN BY PERFECTLY SUBMITTING TO HIS FATHER’S WILL, NOT GIVING IN FOR A MOMENT TO ANY OF THE ADVERSARY’S OBSTACLES, CAUSING SATAN TO FLEE. Note again the conclusion of Jesus’ showdown with Satan

Response:

Poor poor Shameless Shamoun. He thinks his smoke screen is actually working. He thinks that we have some how forgot Satan taking Jesus with him WILLINGLY to go mountain climbing. It is clear, that he is refusing to address this argument. Rather, he wants to highlight Jesus’s achievements.

Now folks, I appeal to the readers. Whether you are a Chrisitan Muslim or neither, I think we can all agree that Shameless Shamoun is engaged in selfdeception, Remember in our debate on, "What the Quran says about the Bible?" (you can download it from my website), I clearly alluded to this point, and I showed you how certain Evangelical Christians engage in selfdeception when confronted with the cold facts, which are unambiguous and conclusive. And here we see yet another text book case, of selfdeception.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

"Jesus said to him, ‘AWAY FROM ME, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."’ THEN THE DEVIL LEFT HIM, and angels came and attended him." Matthew 4:10-11

In other words, Jesus perfectly lived out and demonstrated that James was correct in his claim that Satan will flee from those who submit to God! Thus, Nadir’s appeal to James backfires against him, exposing his inability to read texts carefully in order to understand what the passage is actually saying. Nadir’s appeal to 1 Corinthians 10:20, which speaks of offering sacrifices to demons, as if this is somehow relevant to Jesus’ situation with Satan, only provides further proof for our accusation that he cannot think logically or present a reasoned response.

Response:

Again, Shameless Shamoun refuses to address my argument. My argument that I stated in my article, which he is running from, is that when Satan approached Jesus in the desert, and tempted Jesus to leave the desert and go with him mountain climbing, Jesus should have resisted him! Jesus should have said, "NO. Go to hell Satan!". I will not be a part of your evil designs! But Jesus did no such thing. Rather, Jesus fell prey to Satan’s temptation and obeyed him and followed Satan where ever Satan wanted him to go. Obeying and following Satan is a sin. This is a contradiction in the Bible, because the Bible says, Jesus is sinless. Shameless Shamoun thought that he could highlight a few instances of where Jesus did resist Satan, we will all forget about the occassion when Jesus obeyed Satan and did not resist him. But it is true, that overall Jesus did resist most of the temptations of Satan, but there were some, which Jesus could not resist.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

Pay close attention to what Nadir cited since I never did say that Jesus obeyed Satan, but said that he accepted Satan’s invitation to go to the mountain and to the pinnacle of the Temple FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF DEFEATING AND HUMILIATING THE ENEMY. As anyone reading the Gospel accounts can see, Jesus refused to obey Satan.

Response:

Hehehehe.. Shameless Shamoun thinks we are all stupid here. But this is another example of selfdeception. When Satan came to Jesus and tempted him to follow him to go mountain climbing and take direct orders from him ( when Satan commanded Jesus to sit on the top of the temple), Jesus is obeying Satan. Therefore, Shameless Shamoun did admit that Jesus obeyed Satan.

As for Shamounian interpretation, Jesus had to obey Satan in order to "defeat" him, I already refuted this nonsense in my aritcle. Jesus could have "defeated" and humiliated him in the desert very easily. Furthermore, obeying Satan and taking direct orders from Satan, is not a prerequisite in order to defeat him. Shameless Shamoun was not able to respond to my refutation, so he simply restated his original argument, all the while ignoring the fact that I already refuted it.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

Now why is this important? It is important because Nadir conveniently omitted what I said right afterwards. I said that if the Muslim insists that Jesus "obeyed" Satan for accepting his invitation, thus making him a sinner, then he must also accept the fact that Allah is the biggest sinner out there, and here is why. According to this erroneous logic, Allah also obeyed Satan for giving in to his requests, a point I even raised in my response to Johnny Bravo:

Response:

Shameless Shamoun has posed a riddle, which is based on his misreading of text of the Quran. Allah never obeyed Satan and we will refute his riddle in just a moment. But lets go along with the riddle for argument sake. If Allah obeyed Satan, ok fine.… but who cares? I mean, does that disprove Islam? No. Actually it proves nothing! This is a completely irrelevant argument and shows that Shamoun is incapable of formulating a single valid argument against Islam!

But this also shows that Shameless Shamoun has difficulty comprehending. He has problems grasping details, because he does not understand my argument. I am not saying that Christianity is false because the story of Jesus obeying Satan is an outrageously rediculous story. That is not my argument. Hey, who am I to judge God or his messenger? Right? I am not shoving my own personal values and morality down anyone’s throat, unlike Shameless Shamoun.

But rather, my argument is that Jesus obeyed Satan, which is a horrible sin. And that is a flat out contradiction because the Bible teaches that Jesus is not sinless! Therefore, no book of God can contain such a devastating contradiction.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

Bravo’s assertion that the Quran leaves God out of it only serves to prove that the Quran is an incoherent record, and makes little sense if one didn’t have recourse to the previous Scriptures to understand it.

Response:

This is a flat out lie. If I ever get my hands on this Shameless liar in a public debate, I will make him eat these words J .

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

But since Bravo takes exception to God being incited by Satan to allow the latter to test Job, we duly return the favor

Response:

Sure! Go ahead fatboy! As I already stated, being incited by Satan does not pose any logical contradiction for Islam, but it is devastating to Christianity.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

Iblis asks Allah for respite with the intention of plunging man into destruction, and Allah grants him his request!

Response:

Shameless Shamoun has misread the text. This again, shows that he has difficutly comprehending and paying attention to detail. The verse actually states:

(Allâh) said: "(O Iblîs) get down from this (Paradise), it is not for you to be arrogant here. Get out, for you are of those humiliated and disgraced." (Al-A'raf 7:13)

(Iblîs) said: "Allow me respite till the Day they are raised up (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)." (Al-A'raf 7:14)

(Allâh) said: "You are of those allowed respite." (Al-A'raf 7:15)

Allah answered Satan that "you are of those allowed(past tense) respite" meaning God has already determined his fate BEFORE Satan initiated the question. Satan has NO input or say so regarding if he is allowed respite or not. Therefore, Satan is agreeing with God’s pre-decreed will, which he did not know about till Allah informed him in verse 15.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

For the record, let me repeat the point in all capitals.

I DO NOT CLAIM THAT JESUS OBEYED SATAN.

Response:

YES YOU DID. WHEN YOU SAID JESUS ACCEPTED SATAN’S INVITATION YOU IMMEDIATELY CONCEDED THAT JEUS OBEYED SATAN.

Shameless Shamoun wrote:

And now, in light of the preceding, here is our open challenge to Nadir:

Since you have an audio file of my response to the question posed to me on Paltalk, we invite you to post the entirety of my answer on your website.

Response:

Sorry, don’t have the tape anymore. I pitched it long time ago. But if you are really concerned, then why did you run from me in a public debate?:

http://www.examinethetruth.com/RefutingAI/Shameless_Shamoun_RUNS.htm

You are a coward. Face me in a public debate and I will settle this matter for you. Deal? Now lets revisit Shameless Shamoun’s allegations against me:

lie and deceit
misquoting words and distorting them

What lie? What distortion? Where? We have now seen that these are completely false allegations. This is a Shameless Shamoun’s defense mechanism when he is confronted with the brutal truth, that he immediately accuses the challenger of lying and distortion, but he never winds up showing where these lies and distortions are.

In conclusion, it is all down hill from here on. Shameless Shamoun has successfully evaded each argument presented in the Jesus Obeyed Satan article. He thought he could fool people by highlighting irrelevant issues surrounding the main argument, but he failed. Just to recap, we don’t give hoot if Jesus passed most of Satan’s temptations. Shamoun can jump up in the air and shout SATAN HAS BEEN OVERCOME AND DEFEATED all he wants over a pretty easy test of just saying no thank you to Satan, something most believers do everyday. But this is a diversion from the issue that there were a few temptations which Jesus did not pass. And by Jesus obeying and following the command of Satan, he committed a grave and moral sin. As for the rest of his arguments, they are soo silly and irrelevant to the issue, that I trust no one will be swayed by them, so I will ignore them.

I knew very well that Shameless Shamoun would not be able to refute the solid arguments, therefore, I gave him a way out. Let me extend my invitation again:

We exhort "Answering Islam" to be man enough to courageously come forward and surrender their website to ExamineTheTruth.com. The paper signing ceremony will take place at The Peninsula Chicago (or otherwise specified).

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