Shameless Shamoun caught LYING
about Surah 4:157!
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Shameless Shamoun
wrote:
NA writes:
And lastly, we can not forget what took place in the question and answer period. To be very honest, I don’t think I have ever witnessed such a moment. Answering Islam was clearly refuted and had no response with the following verse:
(referring to crucifixion) and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) ]: (An-Nisa 4:157)
The point was made that the Christians follow the Bible in which they get the story crucifixion, and the Quran calls it conjecture (corruption). Rather than doing the honorable thing, and honestly coming forward and admitting, "fine, ok, you got a point", Sam Shamoun remained defiant, stubborn and arrogant, yet, he could not refute this point. But, he paid for it dearly. What took place after that was probably one of the worst beatings that ever took place. For 30 long grueling minutes, Sam was belted with this one verse, unable to refute it, Sam simply tossed and turned, frothing at the mouth, hurling insults, but he could not respond to this verse. To be very honest, witnessing Sam Shamoun in those conditions, I felt that I was performing an exorcism for those 30 long minutes. Up till now, I still don’t know what possessed Sam Shamoun from not coming out and admitting the obvious, surely, he would not have to go through that torture. And finally, all of this may be hard to digest for Answering Islam’s fans, I can appreciate that, but I would invite you to take a look for yourself and see if what I am saying is not exactly as I stated it in this article, you can download the debate from my website:
RESPONSE:
It is indeed true that what happened in the Q&A was quite unforgettable. And I agree that I don’t think I have ever witnessed such a moment. It was one of the greatest displays of a Muslim’s inability to both comprehend and refute the answer to his argument. NA kept ignoring my repeated claims that I had already addressed this red herring and that the problem had to with his inability to understand the point. It was quite evident that NA was getting desperate since all he could do was repeat himself ad nauseam. Yet, even after readdressing the issue he still couldn’t comprehend the response! I believe that the Q&A session perfectly illustrated why NA wasn’t prepared to debate me and paid for it dearly.
To begin with, this is not a statement about the Bible. It is about a claim that some Jews allegedly made. As such, it is not immediately applicable to the topic that he discusses. To see another reader’s analysis of this passage, exposing Nadir’s gross misuse of this verse, please see this discussion.
Furthermore, who differs with whom? The Jews and the Christians AGREE that Jesus was crucified. "Those who differ" are the Muslims. It is the Muslims who differ both with the Jews and Christians, and even among themselves as the various theories give testimony about. So, who is trapped in conjectures?
The statement itself is impossible: No Jew would BOAST that he killed Jesus, THE MESSENGER OF GOD. The Jewish leaders wanted Jesus to be put to death because they considered him to be a blasphemer and FALSE prophet, i.e. the opposite of the Quranic statement. Clearly, Muhammad inserted his own opinion about Jesus into what supposedly is the verbatim quotation of some Jews, rendering it an obviously inaccurate statement, a clear misquotation.
And now, for the sake of our readers, we will post the response we gave in the debate so that everyone can see NA’s failure to address the point. The quick and simple answer is that by denying the crucifixion while affirming the Bible as God’s preserved Word, the author of the Quran exposes his gross ignorance and fallibility. The author wrongly assumed that his denial of the crucifixion didn’t conflict with his views that the Bible was God’s preserved Word, providing more proof that the Quran is not from the true God. Or, the author of the Quran assumed that he could appeal to the Bible while denying one of its essential teachings by claiming that these passages are either misunderstood or misinterpreted.
In other words, this is just one more proof that NA is a master of evasion and logical fallacies. He has erroneously assumed that since the Quran denies the crucifixion then this somehow means that it also denies the authority and preservation of the Holy Bible. It seems we need to also break this down for him to get the point:
The Quran affirms that the Bible is the preserved Word of God.
The Bible affirms Jesus’ crucifixion while the Quran denies it.
Therefore, the Quran is in error since it affirms the preservation and authority of the Bible while denying one of its essential teachings.
This of course presumes that the Quran actually denies the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ, which leads me to my next point. NA has drawn a wrong inference from 4:157 either because he doesn’t understand what he is reading or because he is deliberately misinterpreting his own book. Note what he says here:
The point was made that the Christians follow the Bible in which they get the story crucifixion, and the Quran calls it conjecture (corruption).
NA gives the misleading impression that the Quran is explicitly denying the crucifixion, specifically the Bible’s teaching on this issue. Instead of exposing his gross misreading of his own book, we will simply defer our discussion to the following article:
http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/preserved-crucifixion.htm
This article was mainly written with NA in mind. In fact we now issue the following challenge to him:
|
WE CHALLENGE YOU TO REFUTE THE ARGUMENTS SET |
Shameless Shamoun
wrote:
It is indeed true that what happened in the Q&A was quite unforgettable. And I agree that I don’t think I have ever witnessed such a moment. It was one of the greatest displays of a Muslim’s inability to both comprehend and refute the answer to his argument. NA kept ignoring my repeated claims that I had already addressed this red herring and that the problem had to with his inability to understand the point. It was quite evident that NA was getting desperate since all he could do was repeat himself ad nauseam. Yet, even after readdressing the issue he still couldn’t comprehend the response! I believe that the Q&A session perfectly illustrated why NA wasn’t prepared to debate me and paid for it dearly.
To begin with, this is not a statement about the Bible. It is about a claim that some Jews allegedly made. As such, it is not immediately applicable to the topic that he discusses. To see another reader’s analysis of this passage, exposing Nadir’s gross misuse of this verse, please see this discussion.
Response:
Did you all catch the
"Shamounian twist"? take a look again. Shameless Shamoun is now
accusing me that I did the following:
- Did not comprehend his answer
- Ignored his REPEATED CLAIM
- Inability to understand his point
- not able to comprehend the response
These are nothing
more than a projection of himself, as we shall prove below. Again, I would
implore you to take the ACID TEST and please download the debate to see for
yourself that these are outright lies! So what is this great response Shameless
Shamoun is boasting about? Here it is:
To begin with, this is not a statement about the Bible. It is about a claim that some Jews allegedly made. As such, it is not immediately applicable to the topic that he discusses. To see another reader’s analysis of this passage, exposing Nadir’s gross misuse of this verse, please see this discussion.
Furthermore, who differs with whom? The Jews and the Christians AGREE that Jesus was crucified. "Those who differ" are the Muslims. It is the Muslims who differ both with the Jews and Christians, and even among themselves as the various theories give testimony about. So, who is trapped in conjectures?
The statement itself is impossible: No Jew would BOAST that he killed Jesus, THE MESSENGER OF GOD. The Jewish leaders wanted Jesus to be put to death because they considered him to be a blasphemer and FALSE prophet, i.e. the opposite of the Quranic statement. Clearly, Muhammad inserted his own opinion about Jesus into what supposedly is the verbatim quotation of some Jews, rendering it an obviously inaccurate statement, a clear misquotation.
There is only one
problem here, and that is, NONE OF THIS RESPONSE WAS EVER MENTIONED IN THE
DEBATE!!! Go ahead, I challenge anyone of you to download the debate, and
listen to it for yourself and see if what I am saying is true or not. I
challenge anyone to see if they can find these arguments mentioned ANYWHERE in
the debate. I guarantee they will not be able to find them. Had Shameless
Shamoun ever mention a single statement mentioned above, I would definitely
have refuted it with ease. Therefore, when we reexamine Shamoun’s accusations:
- Did not comprehend his answer
- Ignored his REPEATED CLAIM
- Inability to understand his point
- not able to comprehend the response
We all know that the
above are blatant, shameless lies, from a shameless liar, Sam "The
Sham" Shamoun, because he never stated these arguments in our debate, thus
there never was a opportunity for me to "not comprehend", or
"ignore", or "not understand".
Now let me take the
time to refute these foolish arguments, Shamoun brought forth several weeks
AFTER THE DEBATE.
Shameless Shamoun
wrote:
To begin with, this is not a statement about the Bible. It is about a claim that some Jews allegedly made. As such, it is not immediately applicable to the topic that he discusses.
Response:
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ
Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not,
nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ
therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to
follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
False. Only part of
the verse is dealing with the claim of some of the Jews. But the verse goes on
to set the record straight about crucifixion, that the Jews did not crucify
him, and anyone who disagrees with this fact, they follow conjecture
(corruption). Now the question is which book claims that the Jews killed Jesus?
The answer is the Bible! It clearly states in 1 Thessalonians 2, I listed the
verse below (you will need to scroll down).
Therefore, The Quran
calls the NT conjecture (corruption!) because it claims that Jews killed Jesus.
Shameless Shamoun
wrote:
Furthermore, who differs with whom?
Response:
Those who differ with
the Quran in that the Jews did not crucify Jesus, and that is of course, the
Bible.
Shameless Shamoun
wrote:
The Jews and the Christians AGREE that Jesus was crucified.
Response:
Yes, and the Quran is
differing with them! And accuses them of following conjecture(corruption).
Shameless Shamoun
wrote:
"Those who differ" are the Muslims.
Response:
Shameless Shamoun has
added another "Shamounian twist" to confuse the reader. Those who
differ are the Christians, and the New Testament writers who believe that the
Jews killed Jesus. Muslims DO NOT disagree with the Quran, we accept it, and we
believe that Jesus was NOT crucified.
Shameless Shamoun
wrote:
It is the Muslims who differ both with the Jews and Christians, and even among themselves as the various theories give testimony about.
Shameless Shamoun
wrote:
So, who is trapped in conjectures?
Response:
Christians. Because
they follow the New Testament which teaches that the Jews crucified Jesus. And
the Quran teaches that anyone who disagrees that the Jews did NOT crucify
Jesus, follow conjecture.
Shameless Shamoun
wrote:
The statement itself is impossible: No Jew would BOAST that he killed Jesus, THE MESSENGER OF GOD. The Jewish leaders wanted Jesus to be put to death because they considered him to be a blasphemer and FALSE prophet, i.e. the opposite of the Quranic statement
Response:
Baseless assertion,
here we see that Shameless Shamoun refutes his own false prophet Paul, because
Paul said "with God all things are possible!" I guess
27:40
and saying, "The One who would demolish the sanctuary
and rebuild it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, come
down from the cross!"
27:41
In the same way the chief priests, with the scribes and
elders, mocked Him and said,
27:42
"He saved others, but He cannot save Himself! He
is the King of Israel! Let Him come down now from the cross, and we
will believe in Him.
He is the king of
Shameless Shamoun
wrote:
http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/preserved-crucifixion.htm
This article was mainly written with NA in
mind. In fact we now issue the following challenge to him:
|
WE CHALLENGE YOU TO REFUTE THE ARGUMENTS
SET |
Response:
And I challenge you
to air the Dr. Zakir Naik debate in which he humiliated Answering Islam on your
website! But I however, will meet your challenge and refute your foolish
article with just a few words.
To begin with,
Shameless Shamoun is claiming that Surah 4:157 is only condemning the idea that
"the Jews crucified Jesus". But Shameless Shamoun doesn’t know his
own Bible because it is the Bible which clearly states that the Jews crucified
Jesus:
1 Thessalonians 2 Read This Chapter
2:14
For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God
in Christ Jesus which are in
2:15
who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove
us out, and displease God and oppose all men
Therefore, The Quran
states that the Jews did not kill Jesus, and those that disagree follow nothing
but conjecture(corruption). And we all know that the New Testament disagrees
with this position. Therefore, the Quran calls the New Testament conjecture
(corruption).
Shameless Shamoun
wrote:
It was quite evident that NA was getting desperate since all he could do was repeat himself ad nauseam.
Response:
Again, I would ask
you to take the ACID
TEST, and see
how Shameless Shamoun is blatantly lying! No such thing happened in the debate.
What did took place, was that Shameless Shamoun was unable to answer S. 4:157,
I cornered him, and challenged him repeatedly to expose his intellectual
dishonesty. I have documented what took place in my article.
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